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Are Socrates' responses to Thrasymachus and Glaucons challenges successful?

Are Socrates' responses to Thrasymachus and Glaucons challenges successful? Topic: Definition meaning to come to a conclusion
May 25, 2019 / By Florence
Question: In The Republic of Plato Thrasymachus challenges Socrates to define what Justice is and if it is worthwhile and Glaucon asks him if Justice is part of the highest level of desirability, meaning is it desirable for their own sake and for its consequences. Are socrates arguments in response to these challenges successful? Why or Why not?
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Best Answers: Are Socrates' responses to Thrasymachus and Glaucons challenges successful?

Dalinda Dalinda | 3 days ago
Micolla, I can only speak on my view. Socrates was a master of logic, whilst his friends were likewise blessed; but, of course, and friend of Socrates would be so blessed. Socrates was the educator of Plato and Plato was the educator of Aristotle. Socrates defined Justice two ways. One way was to define it as the legislature would, and that is to meet the ends of the law ( regardless whether said law was good and worthy.) Socrates other definition was simpliy what is a man's due?; or, in otherwords how do the scales balance? Is what is being done exactly what is deserved? Is what is being received deserved? Socrates very much cared about ( despite that he saw himself as greater than others ) justice in its truest form and was very much against tyranny as he knew it. He was against democracy ( which is why his right to believe as he saw fight was ignored and he was put to death.) You see, in a ' Republic ' the common peopel choose from amonsgt their population persons to take care of teh affiars of their society and most importantly, defend their liberities. In a Republic ( if doen correctly ) both poor men and rich men are equal under the law and receive equal protection under the law ( if said republic is done correctly.) However, a ' democracy' is actualy government by the wealthy who only recognize votes from land owners. People who support democracy do not support freedom of all people, just freedom of the wealthy. The united States pledge of alliegence says " ...... and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands....." It does not say, " and to the DEMOCRACY for which it satnds....." Socrates wanted a Republican form of government, not a democracy. But after the Peloponnesian War people were fighting againt each other in Athens and wanted some sense of direction. they wanted leadership. Socrates fought for true justice and accountability for those in political office. However, those in political office did not want Socrates getting in their way nor starting protests to make changes for the better. In the end, the political powers that be, had Socrates executed for his patriotism and love of true justice ( not the rich man's so-called justice.) Ironically, Socrates felt he had no wisdom ( though a great many felt he was wisest of them all, ) yet, Socrates almost felt himself to be a fool. Socrates understood the true meaning of " education " was not to 'teach,' but to ' draw out' or ' to draw out understanding, ' for the very word ' educate' means...' 'to draw out.' and as such, the very purpose of 'teaching' was, in truth, to 'inform' another of some article of knowledge in such a way that the individual came to understand why something is so; not because they were told something is so, but because they thought through what anothe rsaid to them and of their own accord came to the same conclusion ( or established their own view ) concerning the knowledge they had acquired. As such..... Socrates once said, "I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others."
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We found more questions related to the topic: Definition meaning to come to a conclusion


Dalinda Originally Answered: Am I giving up enough things to become successful? what would you give up to be successful?
seems like you have given everything up except food!! try giving up on food as well i already dont do half of the things you have mentioned there but i never thought that made one successful lol great question that gets me thinking

Blessing Blessing
Hmm I guess I missed out on that "innate desire and need to worship something or someone" I feel no such desire or need in fact I hate the idea of that 2) It comes from mutation... nobody has to "put it there' as you say it can accumulate over time in a biological organism. Where do you think viruses get the information needed to become immune to vaccines?? they are exposed and they adapt. It's like learning.. you weren't born knowing everything were you? 3) Well if that is true then you have to admit that god is an incredible design and so must have a designer, then that designer must have a designer and so on into infinity ad nauseum... By the way a computer is not a living being it cannot change, it cannot adapt it cannot mutate. You are saying eveything came about instantly with all its complexities intact.. I'm saying life started out simple and became more complex by adapting to the information in the environment and discarding irrelevant information, in favor of useful information. It's like learning for DNA... except its in a school where if you don't learn the right thing you die and you never pass on what you learned... Ha look at the first computers compared to the ones of today, they didn't start out perfect we learned as we went and changed things.. discarded parts that didn't really add to the design and kept and improved upon others that did.. see? not so hard to imagine is it? 4) How do you explain all the other religions throughout history whos followers claimed the same thing? How do you explain the people who testify to a life changing experience with Zeus or Odin or the Goddess?? 5) Isn't it a bit extreme to assert "God does exist"? How about admitting you don't know if God, Zeus, Anubis, Odin, Allah, Krishna or any other god/s exist you just have your own beliefs.. How about you look around and say I don't know but I am not going to claim I do?? Why don't we seperate belief from knowledge and pursue each seperately?? The only innate characteristic I can see that contributes to human belief in religion is our inherent fear of the unknown and our innate drive to try and explain it.. Religion gives you all the answers doesn't it? All the comfort you could want because it removes all unknowns... Sorry I prefer questioning and living with the trepidation of not knowing but being willing to learn and search for that knowledge.
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Blessing Originally Answered: Trial and death of Socrates? Can you help?
Socrates lived during the time of the transition from the height of the Athenian Empire to its decline with the defeat by Sparta and its allies in the Peloponnesian War. At a time when Athens was seeking to stabilize and recover from its humiliating defeat, the Athenian public may have been entertaining doubts about democracy as an efficient form of government. Socrates appears to have been a critic of democracy, and his trial is interpreted by some scholars to be an expression of political infighting. In any case Socrates was a man who, willingly or not, pays for the sins of his society with his own blood. Despite claiming death-defying loyalty to his city, Socrates' pursuit of virtue and his strict adherence to truth clashed with the current course of Athenian politics and society. Here it is telling to refer to Thucydides: "Applause, in a word, went to one who got in first with some evil act, and to him who cheered on another to attempt some crime that he was not thinking of." [1] He praises Sparta, arch rival to Athens, directly and indirectly in various dialogs. But perhaps the most historically accurate of Socrates' offenses to the city was his position as a social and moral critic. Rather than upholding a status quo and accepting the development of immorality within his region, Socrates worked to undermine the collective notion of "might makes right" so common to Greece during this period. Plato refers to Socrates as the gadfly of the state, insofar as he aggravated the establishment with considerations of justice and the pursuit of goodness. His attempts to improve the Athenian's allegiance to justice may have been the source of his execution. According to Plato's Apology, Socrates' life as the "gadfly" of Athens began when his friend Chaerephon asked the oracle at Delphi if anyone was wiser than Socrates; the Oracle responded that none was wiser than Socrates. Socrates believed that what the Oracle had said was a riddle, considering there is no record of the oracle ever giving individuals praise for their achievements or knowledge. He proceeded to test the riddle through approaching men who were considered to be wise by the people of Athens. He questioned the men of Athens about their knowledge of good, beauty, and virtue. Finding that they knew nothing and yet believed themselves to know much, Socrates came to the conclusion that he was wise only in so far as "that what I don't know, I don't think I know." Socrates' paradoxical wisdom made the prominent Athenians he publicly questioned look foolish, turning them against him and leading to accusations of wrongdoing. He was nevertheless found guilty for corrupting the youth of Athens, and sentenced to death by drinking a mix of the poisonous hemlock. Socrates turned down the pleas of his disciples to attempt an escape from prison. His disciples also encouraged him to enjoy his final hours with a final meal and sex with a woman of his choice. In the nature of Socrates, he denied these pleasures of the flesh and responded by saying it would make him look absurd to hold on to these bodily pleasures. After drinking the poison, he was instructed to walk around until his limbs felt heavy. After lying down, the man who administered the poison pinched his foot. Socrates could no longer feel his legs. The numbness slowly crept up his body until it reached his heart. Shortly before dying, Socrates spoke his last words to Crito saying, "Crito, we owe a cock to Asclepius. Please, don't forget to pay the debt." The significance of Socrates' last words is not exactly known. The Roman philosopher Seneca attempted to emulate Socrates' death by hemlock when forced to commit suicide by the Emperor Nero. According to Xenophon and Plato, Socrates had an opportunity to escape, as his followers were able to bribe the prison guards. After escaping, Socrates would have had to flee from Athens. However, Socrates refused to escape for several reasons. 1. He believed that such a flight would indicate a fear of death, which he believed no true philosopher has. 2. Even if he did leave, he, and his teaching, would fare no better in another country. 3. Having knowingly agreed to live under the city's laws, he implicitly subjected himself to the possibility of being accused of crimes by its citizens and judged guilty by its jury. To do otherwise would have caused him to break his 'contract' with the state, and by so doing harming it, an act contrary to Socratic principle. The full reasoning behind his refusal to flee is the main subject of The Crito. According to Xenophon's story of Socrates' defense to the jury, Socrates' purposefully gives a defiant defense to the jury because "he believed he would be better off dead." Xenophon's explanation goes on to describe a defense by Socrates that explains the rigors of old age, and how Socrates will be glad to circumvent these by being sentenced to death. It is also understood that Socrates not only wished to avoid the pains of old age, but also to die because he "actually believed the right time had come for him to die."
Blessing Originally Answered: Trial and death of Socrates? Can you help?
It's your test, so I think you should probably find the answers yourself. The entirety of the story is only about fifty pages. Here is one version I found online, although it is different from the translation we used in my classics course: http://www.philosophyprofessor.com/library/plato/the-trial-and-death-of-socrates-0.php You'll want to read the Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo, although you may actually be able to get away with not reading most of the Euthyphro. It has the answer to the first two questions, but you shold be able to get those answer from the Apology as well. The Apology should answer question number three, and the Crito will answer four and five. Good luck!

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